Day in the Life

Jan 27, 1860

26

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January 27, 1860 ~ Friday

27^th I wrote 23 Letters to J. C. Taylor of Holmdel, Monmouth Co N. J.
and Josiah W^m Ware Barryville Clark Co. V.a. concerning she[e]p
I spent the day in the office reading letters I wrote 1 Letter to
Edwin Whiting of Sanpete County I met at Presidents Youngs
for A Meeting whare C C Rich gaven an Account of the Death
of John King who was killed by riding down the mountain on a snow
slide on the 25^th Jan 27 186[0] He wasould ^be^ 26 years old 29^th Jan 1860 He was born
in Australia He was Found with his face on the ground & feet doubled back over his head

Minutes of A Meeting of the Presidency Twelve Presidents of Seventies
and others assembled in President Youngs Council Room at 6 oclok

Thare were Present, President Young President Kimball (D H Wells sick)
All of the Twelve except A. Lyman & G. A. Smith who was sick
The Presidency of the Seventies Bishop Hunter & many others
A Hymn was sung O Happy Souls who pray Prayer By O Hyde
President Young stated the object of the Meeting was to convers
upon Doctrinal Points to see if we see alike & think alike I Pray
that we may have the spirit of God to rest upon us that our minds
may be upon the subject & that we may speak by the Holy spirit
He then called upon A Carrington to read a sermon he read
it before the company a peace prepared for the press written by
Orson Pratt upon the Godhead He claimed that it was the
atributes of God that He worshiped and not the person &
that He worshiped those Atributes whether He found them in
God, orJesus Christ Adam, Moses, The Apostles Joseph, Brigham
or in any body Els after the document was read President
Young then called upon the Twelve to express their feelings up[o]n
the subject He called upon O Hyde to speak & he called upon
TJ Taylor to speak He spoke a short time No one knew at
the time (except the President & Carrington) who was the auth[or]
of the document read. Brother Taylor said he did not see
it in that light He worshiped a personage and not the Atributes
he thought God was Located and could not worship the Atributes
in any body President Young then called a vote of the assembly
and said if you understand this to be a correct doctrin as here
written I wish you manifested it by saying yes No one spoke
President Young then said do I worship Atributes or the
dispenser of those Atributes I worship the Disspencer of those
of those atributes and Not the Atributes This is O Pratts sermon
prepared for the Press I do not want to have it published if it is
not right. Brother Orson worships the Atributes of God but not
God I worship not the Atributes but that God who holds and
dispenses if Eternity was full of atributes and No one to dispens
them they would not be worth a feather. Suppose an Angels comes
to us to Night with a message From God and he tels the angels
not to make himself known He comes to us with a message

and gives a New Law and a penalty for not obeying. you may ask who
are you he may not tell you who he is or he may say God sent
me. you may say whare is that God who sent you I dont know or care
any thing about you or what you say. He might say to you I am a god
to you. Moses said to Israel I am a God to you. Joseph said to us
I am a God to you. this was true and upon the same principles I am
a God to this people & so is any man who is appointed to lead Israel or
the Kingdom of God if the people reject him, they reject the one who
sent him but we will let that drop, and turn to the other subjet now
suppose we were all to receive a fullness of the Atributes of God and
According to Orson Pratts Theory The Lord had a fulness and ~~we could~~
He could not advance but we could advance till we were Equal to him
then if we worshiped the Atributes instead of God we would soon worship
ourselves as soon as we had a fulness of those atributes then you
cannot worship any thing beyound yourself you would then worship
the atributes & not the dispenser of those atributes "this is fals doctrin"
God did not say worship Moses because he was a God to the people. you
may say to your wife or son do so & so. they will say I will not but I
will go to a greater man I will go to Brigham Young. you might say
I am your counciller Dictator or your God Either would be correct
and they should obey your Just & righteous command yet they should
^not^ worship you for this would be sin. Orson Pratt has differed from
me in many things. But this is a great principle & I do not wish to say
you shall do so and so I do not know of a man who has a mathamat-
ical turn of mind but what goes to Far. The trouble betwen Orson
Pratt & me is I do not know Enough & he knows to much. I do not
know evry thing their is a mystery concerning the God I worship
which mystery will be removed when I come to a full knowledge
of God One of the greatest things Joseph Smith ever did was to
Familiarize Heaven & Earth and cause them to shake hand together
and become Familiar together this was a great principle it is sim-
ple yet true. When I me[e]t the gGod I worship I expect to personage
with whom I have been acquainted, upon the same principle that
I would to meet with my Earthly Father after going upon a
Journey & returning home.

W. Woodruff spoke & said that
it is our privelege so to live as to have the spirit of God to bear
record of the Truth of any revelation that comes from God through

the mouth of his Prophet who leads his people and it has ever
been a key with me that when The Prophet who leads presents
a doctrin or principle or says thus saith the Lord I make it a point
to received it even if it comes in contack with my tradition
or views being well satisfied that the Lord would reveal the truth
unto his Prophet whom he has called to lead his Church before he
would unto me, and the word of the Lord through the prophet is
the End of the Law unto me. O Hyde & Joseph Young both backed
me up. Joseph Young said "I do not believe in the doctrin of
worshiping the atrtributes and not the Auther I once loved a woman
she says to me you shall have my respect & kind regards &
she told me to go in peace I told her it was not her good
will that I wanted alone I wanted her. So with my God if
he was to say to me Joseph here take my attributes & go I
would say No Father it is not your attributes alone that I
want but I want you. When I read O Pratts views in the
Seer I could not swallow it. Joseph the Prophet said when
you see your Father you will see him Just as he was in this life
ownly he will be full of Strength Glory Immortality & Eternal
life President Brigham Young said now here is the Twelve
I wish to extend there Influence as Far as I can but I cannot
do it while I ^they^ teach Fals doctrin one of the causes of the declartion
in England (as I understand the people are clear down) is what
Orson Pratt Preached in the seer. There is not a man in the
Church that can preach better than Orson Pratt upon any
subject which he understands it is music to hear him but the
trouble is he will preach upon things he does not know any
thing about and tehen he will preach fals doctrin & so will
Elder Hyde. He preaches upon the resurrection & teaches
things which are not true. I will tell you the God
which you and I worship, it is a Being that was on an Earth
like this He has been cloathed in Mortality the same as
we have been and he has had Devils to fight the same as we have had
but I do not expect they were the same Devils that we have. That God
says I am your God and there is none Els let us worship him and none
Els He is the God that we have. No matter what Gods Enoch saw when
the heavens were opened unto him if the God he saw had been exalted

millions of years before our God was he also had to occupy an Earth
like ourselves and we shall find it out at some period and this
is all the mystery there is about it & if we are faithful we in
our turn shall be Exalted and become Gods, and there will be no
miystery about it when we understand it

O Hyde said I am satisfied that I have used a good deal of philosiphy
whis is not true but that is all done away with, and I did not think
I should meet with the Prejudices of Potawatamie here to night
President Young said if you bring Potawatamie with you you must
expect to meet it O Hyde said that he did not preach in Grants-
ville as Brother Joseph Young reported he did Brother Joseph was
not Present and he has been misinformed concerning it E. T. Benson
Explained the way O Hyde did preach He compaired the reseurrection
to taking a Journey around the world we travel all day stop at a
station at night lie down and sleep at night arise in the morning
& continue our Journey through another day & so on. So at the
end of this life we sleep in the grave till the morning of the resurre-
ction we then arise and continue our Journey" Brother Benson
also said I do not preach things which I do not know I keep
in shallow water I wish to teach the people those things which they
can understand, and those things we cannot understand I do
not trouble myself about. I know it is my duty to sustain the president
of this Church if I do not respect the President of this Church and belie[ve]
his word and I set myself up against him I am under condem
nation I would as lives cut off my right Hand. if he speaks to
us we must believe him and obey him. I mean to do it.

Erastus Snow said President Young has put words in my mouth
so that I can convey what I want. we are apt to say many things
which we do not mean & we injure ourselves I cannot see things
in the same light that Orson Pratt does but when President Young has
taught doctrin it has always tasted good to me I do not wish to
know any more than God wishes me to.

Orson Pratt said I will speak upon this subject I have not
spoaken but once in the Tabernacle since conference I then
spoke upon the revelations in the Doctrins & Covenants concerning the Father
& son & their atributes I spoke upon those attributes of the Father & son
I spoke of the Attributes of the Saints I gave my views upon the attrributes

of God I sincerly believed what I preached. how long I have believed
this doctrin I do not know but it has been for years I have published
it in the Seer. I spoke of a plurality of Gods. in order to worship
this God I said that I adored the atributes wharever I found them
I was honest in this matter * I would not worship a god or Tabernacle
that did not possess Atrtributes if I did I should worship Idols
I have thaught this doctrin. Now the reson I worship the Father
is because in him is combined the attributes if he had not those
attributes I would not worship him any more than I would this
chair. I cannot see any difference between myself and President
Young. If you whad told me what you worshiped him for you
would have told me somthing, but now I can see no difference
between us. I wish to explain Now Jesus said I am in the Father
& the Father in me [3 Nephi 9:15]. Now I do not suppose that the Father is in
the Son & the Son in the Father in the Tabernacle, but in the spirit
and Attributes, truth light power &c. we are told that the son repr-
esents the Father in Attributes &c I called upon the Brethren to come
to this meeting to settel this But I must have somthing more than
a declaration of President Young to convince me I must have evidence
I am willing to take President Young as a guide in most things but
not in all. President Young does not profess to have revelations in
all things. I am not to loose my agency I have said many things
which President Young says is Fals I do not know how it is
I count president Young Equal to Joseph Iand Joseph Equal
to President Young I find things in Josephs Revelations
that govern me I would as lie~~ves~~f believes Joseph as
Brigham. When Joseph teaches one thing & Brigham
seems to teach another contrary to Joseph (I say seems to)
I believe them as Joseph has spoken them and as the Apostle
speaks of them I do not know God ownly by his Atributes, and
that God who has the most Atributes I worship. I worship but one
God, and God does not dwell in me ownly by his Atributes I
have spoken plainly I would rather not have spoken so plainly
but I have No excuses to make President Young said I ought
to make a confession But Orson Pratt is not a man to make a
confession of that I do not Believe. I am not going to crawl to
Brigham Young and act the Hypocrite and confess what I do

not Believe I will be a free man. President Young condems my doctrin
to be fals I do not believe them to be fals I believe President Young
to be sincere in sayin that my doctrin is fals. I did not Believe
the doctrin fals which I published in the Seer in England. it has
been said we should let those things sleep. But you do not let them sleep
If I had thought while in England that President Young worshiped
a God without attributes I would not have written what I did

((The above remark was an unkind cut in Orson Pratt he should not have said it))

But I do not believe it yet I will not act the Hypocrite it may cost me
my fellowship But I will stick to it if I die to night I would say O
Lord God Almighty I believe what I say.

Elder John Taylor spoke at some length and tried to convince Orson Pratt
of his Error. President Young said Orson Pratt has started out upon
false premises to argue upon his foundation has been a fals one all the
time and I will prove it false you have been like a mad stoubern
Mule, and have taken a fals position in order to accuse me you have
accused me of worshiping a stalk or stone or a dead Body without
life or attributes you never herd such a doctrin taught by me or any
leader of the Church it is as false as Hell and you will not hear the
last of it soon. you know it is false Do we worship those attributes No
we worship God because he has all those Attributes and is the dispensur
of them and because he is our Father & our God. Orson Pratt puts down
a lie to argue upon he has had fals ground all the time to night
Thare never was a time or Eternity but what a God did exist, and
a God that had children upon the same principle that children
are now begotton, and I was begotton by the God I worship
who reigns in the heavens and I shall also in my turn reign as
a God & so will you

O Hyde said to O Pratt, My opinion is not worth as much to me
as my fellowship in this Church

President Young said Michael was a resurrected Being and he
lef[t] Eloheem and kcame to this Earth & ~~cre~~with an im[mor]tal Body & continued
so till he partook of Earthly food and begat children who were mortal
(keep this to yourselves) then they died. OA Carrington spoke upon
the subject a short time & made some useful remarks

President Young spoke upon the subject of O. Pratt laying dow fals
principle to work upon That principle if carried out would place

us in a position that when a man got a fulness of the Attributs
of God they would have to worship themselves. But if we worship
God we worship him because he possesses all the Attributes and
dispenses them to the children of men all these Attributes are the
servants of God they serve his purposes and are at his command

President H C Kimball Followed President Young and said
Brother Orson Pratt has withstood Joseph and he has withstood
Brother Brigham many times and he has done it to night
and it made my Blood chill. it is not for you to lead but to
be leadd by him You have not the power to dictate but to be dictated

W. Woodruff arose and said Brother Orson Pratt
I wish to ask you one or two questions. you see that the spirit
and doctrin which you possess ins entirely in oposition to the First Presidency
The Quorum of the Twelve, and all who are present this evening and
it chills the Blood in our veins to hear your words & feel your
spirit should not this be an evidence to you that you are wrong
what would become of the Quorum of the Twelve if we all felt as you do
we should all go to Hell in a pile together. You say you are honest in
the course you are persueing. I wish to ask you if you was honest
when you said that if you had known that President Young
worshiped a God without life or Attributes that you would not have
written what you did (O Pratt said I will recall that) It was an insult
to President You[n]g and the Holy Priesthood which he holds. evry man
in this room who has a particle of the spirit of God, knows that President
Young is a Prophet of God and that God sustains him and He has the
Holy Spirit and his doctrins are true, and that he is qualifyed to
lead the people and he has explained evry thing so plain this evening
that a child can understand it, and yet it is no evidence to you. nothing
can make an impression upon you. no argument can reach your
understanding. But Brother Orson I have seen the day when
you was in sorrow it was when you was cast out of your Quorum
and out of the Church and that to in consequence of persueing the
same course you are this evening. then you could both see feel &
understand. then argument could reach you when you saw your glory
and crown departing from you. I beg of you to reflect and not let
your will carry you to Far in these things. it would be better for us
not to be able to cast up a simple sum in adition and be humble before

the Lord than to have ever so much knowledge & permit that knowledge
to lead us to destruction. There are but few men upon Earth upon
whom God has bestowed such gifts, qualifications and reasoning
powers as he has upon you, and he will hold you responsible for
the use you make of them, and you should not make a wreck of your
salvation for contending for things which you do not understand
and I do feel at this advanced state of the Church, and late day
and with the information which you possess that neither you
nor your Brethren ought to be troubled with Fals doctrin Neither
should you cause your Brethren to listen to such a scene of things
as we have herd to night or to insult the president of this Church
as you have done. although you are unbending in your will to night
the day is not far distant when you will be glad to bend
to the president of this Chiurch and make reconciliation.

Erastus Snow Followed and backed up the Testimony of those
who have spoaken

Orson Hyde spoke upon the subject and said Brother Pratt had
not got the spirit of God. He was followed By C. C. Rich who
backed up the Testimony of the Twelve isn saying that Orson
Pratt was wrong. E. T. Benson spoke upon the same subject
and said if Brother Pratt had the confidence in President
Young which he ought to have he would Feel diferent if he had
the confidence in his Brethren which he should have I know He
would feel different

President Young said I will tell you how I got along with
Joseph I found out that God called Joseph to be a prophet
I did not do it. I then said I will leave the Prophet in the
hands of that God who called and ordained him to be a propht
He is not responsible to me and it is none of my business
what He does it is for me to follow & obey him. I wonce was ash
amed of one thing which I did while in Missouri in Zions Camp
I got a revelation that God excepted our offering I had the same
thing revealed to me twice & that we should not go into Jackson Co.
I named this to some of the Brethren a day or two before Joseph
got a Revelation upon the same subject I felt ashamed that
I named it first. I knew whare we were going and I now
know that when we go to Jackson County we shall go from the west

and I will now tell you all and you may right it down that
all my preaching by the Holy Ghost it is revelation. I told ~~the~~
Brother Joseph that he had given us revelation enough to last
us 20 years when that time is out I can give as good revelation
as their is in the Doctrins & Covenants. "Elder Taylor said
in one of his sermons that if we walk in the light of the Lord
we should have revelations all the time." it is the light that is
within you no man can live his religion without living in
Revelation but I would never tell a revelation to the Church untill
Joseph told it first. Joseph once told me to go to his own house
to attend a meeting with him he said that He would not go without
me. I went and Hiram Preached upon the Bible Book of Morm[on]
& Covenants and said we must take them as our guide alone
he preached vary lengthy untill he nearly wearied the people out
when he closed Joseph told me to get up. I did so I took the Books
and piled them all up on top of Each other. I then said that I
would not give the ashes of a rye straw for all those books for my
salvation without the living oracles I should follow and obey
the living oracles for my salvation instead of any thing Els when
I got through Hyrum got up and made a confession for not
including the living Oracles.

It may be thought strange by the Brethren that I will still fello-
wship Elder Pratt bafter what He has said, but I shall do it. I
amd determined to whip Brother Pratt into it and make him
work in the harvess. Orson Pratt said if I gratifyed my
feelings I had rather go into the canyon than to Preach I
have got to go to Tooele to get wood for my family President Young
said I will give you a mission in Tooleele to preach & send word
to the Bishop to get some men & draw up his wood Brother Pratt
has no busines in the canyon the Lord does not want him there
F D Richard Dismissed the meeting

People

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8 Jan 1813 - 19 Sep 1889

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Jan 27, 1860

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People

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Jan 27, 1860

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